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    • CommentAuthorJer
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2007
     
    Hey guys..

    I just threw full fenders on my current ride, and they are going to be staying on there for bad weather days. That means I'm itching to have a sexy bike, and am thinking about what type of frame to start looking for..

    Things I'm looking for:

    • not crazy expensive, I'll pay to get a good frame but nothing outrageous
    • fully lugged steel frame, for no good reason other than that my conversion has them and I like it.
    • track ends would be fun
    • don't need any bottle holder, rack, fender or any other brazeons
    • I will be riding a front brake


    What say you? I was looking at those Spartan frames, and they seem like they could be a decent starting place....
    Jer
  1.  
    ^I have some stuff to sell...[all your base are belong to us]
    • CommentAuthorbluedog
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2007
     
    what are "those Spartan frames"?that's when I reach for my revovler...
  2.  
    http://www.sparta.nl/

    obviously. sorry, too lazy to find/post a picture.You're purposefully attempting to sabotage my degree project. Thanks.
    • CommentAuthorbluedog
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2007
     
    i'm confused, those all seem to be cruiser type things. I'm curious just cause I've never heard of the bikes before.that's when I reach for my revovler...
    •  
      CommentAuthorpapi
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2007
     
    you were probably thinking of the sparton bikes

    ^from king kog's siteI'm going to eat your brain and gain your knowledge
    • CommentAuthorbluedog
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2007
     
    ahh, now those look cool.that's when I reach for my revovler...
  3.  
    ^Oooh... Now I want one![all your base are belong to us]
  4.  
    yeah i was gunna say i went to that link and i was like uhhhh beach cruiser fixie? ahaharide bikes for money not for fun(unless your drunk)
    • CommentAuthorJer
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2007
     
    Yeah.. I first heard of them on fixed.gr/nyc

    Spartan frame thread on fixed.gr/nyc

    One guy builds it up, and gives it a "meh" review. But for $200 it is hard to find a fully lugged frame with fork ends...

    jer
    •  
      CommentAuthoraarn
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2007
     
    Yeah, i saw one of those a month or so ago (mentioned it in the old sightings thread [RIP]), if the guy didn't tell me that it was new i would have thought it was a classic...and, as i mentioned before, the decals are over the clear coat from what i saw, meaning they come off easy and you electrical tape people would not have to go to the hardware store.(moscow)
    •  
      CommentAuthorBuckley!
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2007
     
    Based on what I read in the NYC thread, I'm not all that impressed, but if anyone's just looking for something cheap & new with track ends, it seems like the only thing you can get for under $200 that fits the bill.The kid's gotta learn that the game never lets up.
    • CommentAuthorJer
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2007
     
    buckley:Based on what I read in the NYC thread, I'm not all that impressed, but if anyone's just looking for something cheap & new with track ends, it seems like the only thing you can get for under $200 that fits the bill.


    Yeah, I kinda agree.. What are the other options though... From what I know the next step up for a fully lugged frame is ~500 for something NJS..

    I may end up getting a TT and painting it, but I'd rather not go that route...
    Jer
    •  
      CommentAuthorMungoRocks
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2007
     
    Iunno dude, I think if you dropped the lugged requirement it'd open up your options alot..

    Like, to basically any of the lower-end track/streetfix frames.dongpincher 1000
    • CommentAuthorgc
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2007
     
    some of the chatter on bikefourms seems to indicate that in the near future lots of cheap lugged steel fixie frames will come out..basically all of the budget $200 "track" frames will have a lugged equivalent...
    but lugs..welds... its basically all the same at the end of the daygone
    • CommentAuthorJer
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2007
     
    le lion couchant:some of the chatter on bikefourms seems to indicate that in the near future lots of cheap lugged steel fixie frames will come out..basically all of the budget $200 "track" frames will have a lugged equivalent...
    but lugs..welds... its basically all the same at the end of the day


    I'm sure that budget frames will come out at some point, hopefully before spring, because that is when I'm going to be doing this buildup :)

    But lugs and welds are not basically the same.. I've done a lot of welding, and without a doubt getting a strong weld is not as easy as it looks. A quality frame builder is not going to have problems but the skill and attention of the welder is major factor for each joint.

    Lugged frames are braised, which is much harder to do wrong. It also allows for the structural tubes to be thinner since the lug is holding the thing together. These frames are also repairable, but I'm sure most people would just toss them anyway.

    Does it really matter on a low end frame? I doubt it. But given the choice between the two I'd opt for lugged.. That is kinda why I started this thread; hoping to flush out a decent budget lugged frame....

    jer

    PS: I don't read BFFGSS anymore.
  5.  
    bikesdirect guy is gonna get cheap frames. now you're up to date.You're purposefully attempting to sabotage my degree project. Thanks.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMungoRocks
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2007
     
    I don't know what size you are, Gene Spicer has 2 lugged frames (I think a 52 and a 54) for $400 a piece. check under closeouts.dongpincher 1000
    • CommentAuthorJer
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2007
     
    conor:bikesdirect guy is gonna get cheap frames. now you're up to date.


    i bet you 52 cents they are going to be the Spartan frame..

    -jer
    • CommentAuthorJer
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2007
     
    DannyRocks:I don't know what size you are, Gene Spicer has 2 lugged frames (I think a 52 and a 54) for $400 a piece. check under closeouts.


    The white one is nice looking.. I ride a 56/58 though; not to mention I can't afford it right now..

    Jer
    •  
      CommentAuthor0x000000
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2007
     
    so i'm also thinking of getting a track frame that actually fits me. i do really like the spicer frames, but is there any reason i shouldn't just go for the kilo tt and possibly paint it too (we can be twins!)?

    p.s. jer: thanks for letting me borrow that tire. i'll try to get it back to you soon.what does he commute to clowntown on that thing
    •  
      CommentAuthorjacobs
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2007
     
    Jer:Lugged frames are braised, which is much harder to do wrong. It also allows for the structural tubes to be thinner since the lug is holding the thing together.


    this isn't true. brazing, is much EASIER to do wrong. it also, in a general sense, requires structural tubes to be THICKER at the ends, with longer butts on the tube ends, because the heat cycles the joint goes through in brazing are much more strenuous on the metal.


    the simple economics of a really cheap brazed frame are scary to me. it requires much more materials, which are expensive to make/get (investment casting isn't cheap, even in huge quantities), than tig. they also require a huge amount more man hours to assemble than tig. with that in mind, a lugged $200 frame cut a corner somewhere that the tig'd bike probably didn't have to.

    you get what you pay for! those spartans have a lot of corners cut in the finishing process, which is talked about in the nyc thread.

    for perspective, even if i used the absolute cheapest/crappiest materials i can buy, it would still cost me over $150, without paint, to build a lugged frame.
    • CommentAuthorJer
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2007
     
    jacobs:
    Jer:Lugged frames are braised, which is much harder to do wrong. It also allows for the structural tubes to be thinner since the lug is holding the thing together.


    this isn't true. brazing, is much EASIER to do wrong. it also, in a general sense, requires structural tubes to be THICKER at the ends, with longer butts on the tube ends, because the heat cycles the joint goes through in brazing are much more strenuous on the metal.


    the simple economics of a really cheap brazed frame are scary to me. it requires much more materials, which are expensive to make/get (investment casting isn't cheap, even in huge quantities), than tig. they also require a huge amount more man hours to assemble than tig. with that in mind, a lugged $200 frame cut a corner somewhere that the tig'd bike probably didn't have to.

    you get what you pay for! those spartans have a lot of corners cut in the finishing process, which is talked about in the nyc thread.

    for perspective, even if i used the absolute cheapest/crappiest materials i can buy, it would still cost me over $150, without paint, to build a lugged frame.


    jacobs; this makes a lot of sense. Especially regarding the time and materials to build the frame.

    I do disagree about the braising vs welding though, but I'm not a frame builder nor professional welder..

    jer
    •  
      CommentAuthorjacobs
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2007 edited
     
    Jer:
    I do disagree about the braising vs welding though, but I'm not a frame builder nor professional welder..


    then maybe you should listen to someone who is both......