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    • CommentAuthorBAUMANN
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009 edited
     
    READ AS MUCH OF THIS AS YOU CAN

    Just 100 grams of hops (about 3.5 ounces) contains anywhere from thirty thousand to three hundred thousand IUs of estrogen, depending on the type of hops. Most of it is the very potent estrogen estradiol. Estradiol, as it is taken into the male body, causes a direct lowering of testosterone levels in the testes and an increase in SHBG levels, which then binds up even more free testosterone in the bloodstream. The estradiol in hops has also been found to directly interfere with the ability of the testes Leydig cells to produce testosterone....

    There is also some interesting info about a few recent soy studies that I think might directly effect some of you:

    Speaking of estrogen levels, SOY is one of the worst! A lot of studies are coming out now that prove that soy, soybeans, soy milk, tofu etc not only inhibit brain function (and development in children), but a soy-based formula given to an infant affects the body chemistry the same way as five birth control pills.

    Many vegans/vegetarians report a drastic increase in cognitive function within weeks of giving up soy products.

    Bummer. RIDE METAL
    •  
      CommentAuthorg0balistik
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    wait, then why do drunk guys always want to fight?

    about the soy/tofu...can we just get over that fad now?
    •  
      CommentAuthorbrunop
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    if hops were that high in estrogen, i'd look like dolly parton. and my nuts'd be the size of bb's. i call bullshit.
    • CommentAuthorBAUMANN
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    ^haha, id be in a similar predicament myself, but it seems like there is a fair bit of scientific evidence behind it...RIDE METAL
    • CommentAuthorgc
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    eBAUMANN:READ AS MUCH OF THIS AS YOU CAN

    Not to shoot the messenger or anything, but I happened to notice that your link does not provide any references to any sort of scientific or refereed publications, but rather contains an excerpt from "The Natural Testosterone Plan".
    Always important to consider your source.gone
    •  
      CommentAuthorbrunop
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    in fack, i'ma pick me up a "pick yer own sixer" from julio's in northborough as i have bidness out that way. i ain't skeered o' growin' titties.
    •  
      CommentAuthordora
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    oh man, i have so much to say about this :D yay science!!

    first off, good research sites sources. where did this person get their info from? where did they get THEIR info from? who funded this research? the soy, dairy and corn industries (are all equally as bad and) have huge lobbying power and fund a surprising amount of research to yield results in their favor. the soy industry will just so happen to find results that dairy products are the devil, and vice versa. and i'm sure you've all seen the commercials saying that high fructose corn syrup is tooootally cool, paid for by the nat'l corn grower's assoc and all the "research" that was done to back up those statements. so just keep in mind that who paid for the research makes a HUGE difference.

    secondly, there isn't sufficient data in this little report. this 30-300,000 IU's of phytoestrogen is useless unless put into context. how much estrogen is in the beer vs the soy? what's the normal amount found in blood in men? in women? how much do hops raise levels of estrogen in the blood? it may be a type of phytoestrogen that doesn't bind with human estrogen receptors, like the kind found in peaches. also, what are the long term effects, if any? so you get super hammered and get whiskey dick. whatevs. is that anything to worry about?

    third, soy is bad for some people sometimes. there have been studies that have shown that menopausal women benefit from eating a bunch of soy. also, women who eat soy regularly see a lower occurance of reproductive cancers. but for young children and infants, however, it's not so good because it causes late onset of puberty for boys, early onset of puberty for girls and throws off their delicate little natural hormonal balances. it sucks that baby formula has tons of soy in it. and someone like me with a thyroid condition or anyone else with any other condition that affects hormonal balances (poly cystic ovarian syndrome, anything that causes someone to be on hormone replacement therapy, etc) should avoid soy like the plague for metabolic reasons. but other twenty somethings who are healthy, i don't think a veggie burger and a couplea beers are gunna make them brain dead or have man boobs or whatever.

    fourth, i'd really like to read more of this stuff about estrogen and brain function (which, as a woman, i'm a little offended by already). i'm a vegan science kid who can't eat soy, there are more published papers out there on the topic than i could ever read but i've done good amount of research and never came across any published work that states that phytoestrogens inhibit brain function. i'd love to read them. it sounds interesting and hormones definitely directly affect brain chemistry so i can see the correlation but i'm not so sure i buy it.

    but that's just my 2 cents
    ok i'll stop geeking out now :)Must be awful, being so fluffy.
  1.  
    ^+1 science [eta]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    but Dora, wrt your offense, i don't think the issue is estrogen reducing brain function or whatever, rather abnormally high levels of it. *if true*, i imagine it would hold true for lots of hormones.

    oh also, estrogen has anti-tumor effects. DRINK BEER FUCK CANCER.DFL and DTF :D:D:D:D
    • CommentAuthorcolin
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    phytoestrogen is key. I'm pretty sure plant-derived estrogen (what would be found in beer and soy) does not affect the body in the same way as mammalian estrogen. Off hand, I don't have a source for this though.
    •  
      CommentAuthordora
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    surprisefries:^+1 science [eta]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    but Dora, wrt your offense, i don't think the issue is estrogen reducing brain function or whatever, rather abnormally high levels of it. *if true*, i imagine it would hold true for lots of hormones.

    oh also, estrogen has anti-tumor effects. DRINK BEER FUCK CANCER.


    word, times 3 :)Must be awful, being so fluffy.
    •  
      CommentAuthorstilgar
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    I don't drink, and don't eat that much soy, and I am really girly...your hat is a lobster, so your argument is invalid.

    Solved!this wont hurt a bit...
    • CommentAuthorBAUMANN
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    thanks for the input dora, nice to have an informed opinion. it was just something i found and thought to share with you guys, figured some of you would have something to say about it...RIDE METAL
    •  
      CommentAuthorhowl
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009 edited
     
    go straight to the source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

    The research on soy and cognitive function is a bit sparse. There is evidence that estrogen improves some memory tasks in both genders, with particular efficacy for post-menopausal women. The evidence for soy is quite a bit more dubious- the phytoestrogens bind much more weakly than endogenous estrogen, and soy has other bioactive components.

    The testosterone-estrogen thing is pretty complicated as well- testosterone is metabolized into estrogen in many tissues, and this is the form in which it exerts a lot of its functions. "Masculine" brain changes in the presence of testosterone appear to actually be exerted by the estradiol metabolite.Troglodytarum is latin for troll
  2.  
    howl, you know just www.pubmed.com works now? ;)

    So if the efficacy is higher in post-menopausal women, that makes sense that the issue is overall levels- i.e. that supplementing with estrogen post-menopause is really just restoring(ish) baseline pre-menopausal levels. Either way i wouldn't worry much unless all you ever eat or drink is soy and beer.DFL and DTF :D:D:D:D
    •  
      CommentAuthorhowl
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    ^yeah, yeah. just copied it out of the browser.Troglodytarum is latin for troll
  3.  
    http://www.ncbirofl.com/i mean that looks like a 10 cat bag, easy
    •  
      CommentAuthordora
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    eBAUMANN:thanks for the input dora, nice to have an informed opinion. it was just something i found and thought to share with you guys, figured some of you would have something to say about it...


    thank you for sharing! :) it got my wheels a'turnin and i always love a good wheel turn ;) hahaMust be awful, being so fluffy.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbrunop
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    i'm drinkin' a beer right now. oh no!!!!!! my nuts're shrinkin'!!!!!! HELP!!!!!!!!

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!!!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorkatdaley
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    brunop:i'm drinkin' a beer right now. oh no!!!!!! my nuts're shrinkin'!!!!!! HELP!!!!!!!!

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!!!!


    real talk.Behind my Game Boy™, I got game, boy.
    •  
      CommentAuthormrotown
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    There was a good issue of nutrition action newsletter (published by the very reputable center for science in the public interest) debunking the soy thing a month or two ago.e-f-f-e-c-t a smooth operater operating correctly
  4.  
    I can't say I've tried to find it, but there was some study from Japan a number of years back that found (by my understanding/memory) diminished memory-recall in men who had a shitload of soy in their diets.
    •  
      CommentAuthormrotown
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    The same article also made reference to the difficulties in applying studies from asian countries to the united states. The soy in our diets is much more processed and different from the soy in theirs.e-f-f-e-c-t a smooth operater operating correctly
  5.  
    Huh... I figured asian studies might not apply well, but I never considered processing as an issue. Does that apply mainly to the soy-derived additives in processed food, or to straight-up tofu as well?

    I can't say I completely avoid soy... I just try to mindful of how often I'm having it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMungoRocks
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     
    g0balistik:wait, then why do drunk guys always want to fight?
    why do women always wanna fight?

    about the soy/tofu...can we just get over that fad now?
    +1dongpincher 1000