Not signed in (Sign In)

Category Filter

Welcome, Guest

Want to take part in these discussions? Sign in if you have an account, or apply for one below

Vanilla 1.1.8 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

    • CommentAuthorAlex
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2011
     
    That's probably worse than I could have even imagined.
    • CommentAuthorben
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2011
     
    Chris:That is awesome. I had no idea I would actually receive an answer. Hell, including labor, other parts, and overheard costs, $3,750 is beyond reasonable.
    Fuck yeah.
    I agree. When I saw the tubeset costs and began figuring in the other expenditures on their end, $3,750 started making a lot more sense.

    Not that I'm anywhere near the point of thinking that a $6,500+ bike is appropriate for me.I have DTF pants. They're crotchless. -surprisefries
    • CommentAuthorkittenbat
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2011
     
    you can start here http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/newsDetail/4963.html
    this is good too http://www.embrocationmagazine.com/online/2011-rife-with-change

    A couple of long-time employees, a couple of folks that used to work at IF and are back giving it a go again and a couple of totally new faces are planning on making the move to NH. A bunch of people already left the company because basically they didn't want to uproot their lives/families or commute to New Hampshire. The plans I've heard about the new shop sound really well thought out and I hope the move goes smoothly. Everyone that is staying on with the company seems excited for it.

    Oh hi, I'm Leah. I've been at IF for almost 5 years and I'll be leaving next week to go do something awesome for the summer and then go back to school. It's really been quite amazing to have seen people from the local bike scene so interested in what has gone down. Not everyone knows all the ins-and-outs (nor should you) and not everyone has said positive things but it really is quite a testament to the level of love and involvement in this community.

    Anyways, this thread is about Firefly and let's not detract from that. My bros over there have got years of talent with their craft, immense creativity and huge huge drive to succeed and add something new with their new company. Wish them well!
  1.  
    bf is the new vs.

    atmo.You're purposefully attempting to sabotage my degree project. Thanks.
    • CommentAuthortristan
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2011
     


    Firefly #1ascott430 - "Was going to build it up into a fixed gear until I realized I'd rather spend money and time on mountain bikes."
    •  
      CommentAuthorBach~ez
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2011
     
    BOOM!mrotown: U lock them by the neck to a street sign!
    •  
      CommentAuthorZevsInSF
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2011
     
    Dudes. click on their tumblr link and open yo' peepers!

    There is bike-shop pron ALL OVER that shit.EPIC! Stratton: ^fwiw he did in fact have a map out.... ...while riding.... ...with no hands.... ..on fire*...
  2.  
    The blog is where it's going down right now!

    Chronicling the beginnings... swoop it here: http://fireflybicycles.com/blog
    • CommentAuthorben
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2011
     
    It blows my mind that, according to the Bicycle Retailer article about the move, IF only first turned a profit in 2010. Does that strike anyone else as really odd, especially since they'd been around for 15 years at that point?I have DTF pants. They're crotchless. -surprisefries
  3.  
    nope. i'm studying business and all that financial crap. the machinery, building, employees, and amount of overhead involved in high end production materials of a niche product must have been absurd.somebody turn the lights off on this place already.
    • CommentAuthorben
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2011 edited
     
    Yeah, but 15 years? I mean, I realize they were employee owned, which means they could pay themselves exactly what was coming in and not technically have a 'profit' or whatever, but I'm still surprised - particularly considering their volume, prices, and reputation.I have DTF pants. They're crotchless. -surprisefries
    •  
      CommentAuthorseanile mick
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2011 edited
     
    most normal retail startups take around 6-8, that's with a variety of sales potential and a wide customer base. the target market for high end and custom frames is small and thus has a low inventory turnover with high risk and high overhead material costs which don't get paid for until the end of sale.
    consider the actual profit they're making rather than revenue.
    they have rent, electricity, fuel, very expensive tubing which require contracts to obtain consistently (which are very costly to obtain when you're starting up), the debt interest they're paying for the loans they took out to start the company (this is where most people get hurt bad), parts for those complete bikes, contracts for obtaining those parts/materials where they pay a cut, labor, insurance, utilities, marketing, unforseen fuckups, inventory that is unsold and thusly still written off as a cost, research and development because they seem to lead in some revelations with tubing useage, sponsoring, shipping, the discounts they've given friends, taxes, accountant and legal fees if they use outside firms, etc.

    the only substantial profit they receive is the (i'm completely guessing here, but this seems reasonable) 40% markup from the cost of the bikes and parts they sell. this has to be spread far and wide to cover all those costs. first you have to deal with the startup base costs to get your company going, then the yearly fixed costs which are required each year, then the variable costs which fluctuate with production. there's a lot to consider.somebody turn the lights off on this place already.
  4.  
    .Take-off everything but your rainboots
  5.  
    .Take-off everything but your rainboots
  6.  
    Chris:
    BMX frame builders..., but the builders that make custom (BMX) frames have more experience than IF.


    again you are a fucking idiot... Do you have any idea how long IF has been around? Do you know where the guys who started IF came from? IF and it's predecesors (Fat City, Rhygin and Merlin) and descendents (ANT Bikes, Firefly and Geekhouse(kinda)) have way more expirence then ANY custom BMX builder

    brunop:from here on out, let's differentiate betwixt "02143 IF's" and "portsmouth IF's". to keep confusion at bay. and then go on with FF as a continuation of the REAL (aka "02143") IF's. the REAL IF's are now FF's.

    we all straight?

    agreed?

    ; )

    no not agreed, Brian, Benny and the rest who are making the move are great boys and will build great bikes. I'm happy to see Firefly taking off, and what Leah told me about her plans sound great. But the NH IF are not going to be any less IFs then post Mike F IFs were less of a bike.

    grey ham:http://bostonfixed.us/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1021&Focus=220700#Comment_220700

    start there, read down 10 or 15 posts, alexi has a good summary of what went down.


    after the dust settled down and everyone I've talked to has calmed down I'm not as pissy about the move, some folks are happy some folks aren't. Those who arn't are going on to new ventures and we all wish them the best of luck. The only thing still getting my goat is the Baily issue, and the vietnam issue. Gary seems like a major ass-hat but I believe he will be doing a goodjob of handling IF.

    ps
    So Merlin is for sale, and i've heard from a few people that Gary is interested...Take-off everything but your rainboots
    • CommentAuthorgc
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2011
     
    ben:It blows my mind that, according to the Bicycle Retailer article about the move, IF only first turned a profit in 2010. Does that strike anyone else as really odd, especially since they'd been around for 15 years at that point?

    as i understand it in my head after all expenses are paid for and then they pay all of their salaries, there is nothing left over = no profits, no one to take the profit. they probably gave each of themselves a salary, and based that into expenses and anything left over was a bonus.
    IF's 15 (or whatever) employees didn't work for free for 15 years.

    nb: i did not study businessgone
  7.  
    grey ham:
    ben:It blows my mind that, according to the Bicycle Retailer article about the move, IF only first turned a profit in 2010. Does that strike anyone else as really odd, especially since they'd been around for 15 years at that point?

    as i understand it in my head after all expenses are paid for and then they pay all of their salaries, there is nothing left over = no profits, no one to take the profit. they probably gave each of themselves a salary, and based that into expenses and anything left over was a bonus.
    IF's 15 (or whatever) employees didn't work for free for 15 years.

    nb: i did not study business


    this makes sense to me.
    • CommentAuthorben
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2011
     
    grey ham:
    ben:It blows my mind that, according to the Bicycle Retailer article about the move, IF only first turned a profit in 2010. Does that strike anyone else as really odd, especially since they'd been around for 15 years at that point?

    as i understand it in my head after all expenses are paid for and then they pay all of their salaries, there is nothing left over = no profits, no one to take the profit. they probably gave each of themselves a salary, and based that into expenses and anything left over was a bonus.
    IF's 15 (or whatever) employees didn't work for free for 15 years.

    nb: i did not study business


    That's pretty much exactly what I already said...

    ben:Yeah, but 15 years? I mean, I realize they were employee owned, which means they could pay themselves exactly what was coming in and not technically have a 'profit' or whatever, but I'm still surprised - particularly considering their volume, prices, and reputation.
    I have DTF pants. They're crotchless. -surprisefries
    • CommentAuthortristan
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2011 edited
     
    #1 in the jig
    ascott430 - "Was going to build it up into a fixed gear until I realized I'd rather spend money and time on mountain bikes."
    • CommentAuthorgc
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2011 edited
     
    ben:That's pretty much exactly what I already said...

    ben: but I'm still surprised - particularly considering their volume, prices, and reputation.

    surprised at what?
    you're still getting hung up on the word profit. without an owner/ceo/whatever there_is_no_one to take a profit; thus no profit is ever made- whatever's left over was probably re-invested into the company- through upgrades in equipment, salary increases, etc etc.
    another convenient fact- last year was the first full year of gary smith's ownership, correct?

    this is 100% speculation, though, so maybe tyler can set me straight.
    also: this is mostly a silly semantic debate hinging on how they do their accounting.

    ben, don't you work in the financial industry?gone
    •  
      CommentAuthorseanile mick
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2011 edited
     
    Mick:......consider the actual profit they're making rather than revenue....-->explanation
    i thought i went into it pretty well ben

    and yea graham, i'd say you've got the right ideasomebody turn the lights off on this place already.
  8.  
    ^^ I'm no expert on financial/corporate dealings, but presumably IF was incorporated, if so there would be people to disgorge/dole out profits to... one would presume the second part of your statement was true, however, in that they paid all of their expenses (salaries and benefits, rent or mortgage and taxes, materials costs, insurance, et cetera) and there was no profit left over...

    But I suppose that's probably not so horrible for tax purposes.

    Sorry if I'm also re-covering previously discussed material.
    • CommentAuthorben
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2011 edited
     
    I'm not stupid you guys.

    I understand exactly what you're saying, and I thought of it before posting. I'm not a moron. Please don't talk down to me like I am.

    What I was expressing is surprise that, for 15 years, there were no profits. Yes, it takes time to get a business up and running. And yes, you have sunk costs that you are continuing to pay off. And yes, as a small business you'll likely want to plow funds back into the business to keep it growing. Like I said, I'm not fucking a dunce. We all learned that in Intro to Business.

    But a decade and a half is a long time in the small business world. When ~50% aren't around in 5 years (1), and when ~39% are profitable by the time they close (2), I assumed -- considering their longevity, and because I didn't think they were still trying to expand ever upward even now -- that a seemingly very successful, very well known company like theirs, producing bikes in the volume that they do(did) would have been profitable before last year. That's it.

    Clearly my assumptions, which influenced my surprise, could have been wrong. Their interest in growing may be exactly why they didn't have "profits" in the 'true' sense of the term, or maybe they weren't nearly as successful as I assumed. Either way, it is possible that they were bringing in more money than they paid out, and it is possible that they were profit sharing amongst their employees, and to be surprised to hear that that wasn't the case (for whatever reason) seems perfectly reasonable.

    And no, I don't work in the financial industry.I have DTF pants. They're crotchless. -surprisefries
    •  
      CommentAuthornerdo
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2011
     
    ^Maybe it makes a difference that they were employee owned?Worstcase I'll just zip tie on a seat... but i'd rather not. —Zev (who else)
    •  
      CommentAuthortinhat
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2011
     
    trizzt:#1 in the jig


    i dig the fat city sign in the back. do you do tours? :D
    • CommentAuthortristan
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2011
     
    ascott430 - "Was going to build it up into a fixed gear until I realized I'd rather spend money and time on mountain bikes."
    • CommentAuthorslowski
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2011
     
    that water bottle on the surface table is making me cringe.If at first you don't succeed... you fail.
    •  
      CommentAuthorZevsInSF
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2011
     
    pure sex. I'd hate to think that's getting painted. I like how the FF logo looks, but omg its SO ORANGE.



    I was gonna put it in bike porn, but seems to fit better here.EPIC! Stratton: ^fwiw he did in fact have a map out.... ...while riding.... ...with no hands.... ..on fire*...
  9.  
    i dont think it is getting painted. probably polished and decaled
    • CommentAuthorben
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2011
     
    I hate to say it, but I really dislike their headbadge. And company name.

    Is that terrible?I have DTF pants. They're crotchless. -surprisefries
    •  
      CommentAuthornerdo
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2011
     
    It's not terrible, as you probably were never going to be able to buy one of their frames. So that's a zero loss.

    I actually like both their name and their headbadge, but I'm probably never going to buy one of their frames either. So that's a zero gain.Worstcase I'll just zip tie on a seat... but i'd rather not. —Zev (who else)
    •  
      CommentAuthorZevsInSF
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2011 edited
     
    I mean. choosing a name for a company is a really hard decision to make. And I really dont think that they've lost anything by using "firefly," and I like it as well.
    things that come to mind when thinking firefly:
    plentiful, light, beacon, organic, bright, fun, summer... i'm not gonna try much harder than that.


    I liked the headbadge before it was orange... but considering they'd like it to stand out... it makes sense.

    but they've been doing a LOT of calculation building their equipment, and I figured they've done the same for their brand. not to mention they worked with a pretty solid design firm for the visuals. (who has worked with a bunch of cycling companies in the past)EPIC! Stratton: ^fwiw he did in fact have a map out.... ...while riding.... ...with no hands.... ..on fire*...
  10.  
    you forgot to mention joss whedon.You're purposefully attempting to sabotage my degree project. Thanks.
  11.  
    I LOVE JOSS WHEDONYO NOT EVERYBODY GOES TO EAR SCHOOL OK
    • CommentAuthorben
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2011 edited
     
    VectoredZev:things that come to mind when thinking firefly:
    girls in sun dresses, light and fluffy, disney movies, maypole dancing, children, fields.


    When I do eventually get a custom frame, it will be Ti. And for better or worse, there are enough excellent builders around that I think a strong dislike of the name or branding of a manufacturer would be enough to put me off from ordering from them.

    Nerdo's right, though, that whether or not I like the name has no real bearing on the company or their business. I won't be getting a custom bike for a few years, and by then they certainly shouldn't be in need of my business. I just felt somewhat guilty having a visceral negative reaction to something that a small, local bike builder has obviously put a lot of time and effort into. I want to like and support them. (edit: I'm not saying I don't; just that it's harder to be enthusiastic about a product when you don't like its branding.)I have DTF pants. They're crotchless. -surprisefries
  12.  
    god help anyone who uses zev in a focus group
    •  
      CommentAuthorBuckley!
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2011 edited
     
    kilgore_trout:god help anyone who uses zev in a focus group

    This bears immediate repeating.

    And does no one see the possibility that the headbadge is going to be orange on this bike? Not necessarily all of them. It's just paint, people.The kid's gotta learn that the game never lets up.
    • CommentAuthortristan
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2011
     
    regardless of anything else, this is just hot.

    Also, while I didn't like it at first, the logo has grown on me.ascott430 - "Was going to build it up into a fixed gear until I realized I'd rather spend money and time on mountain bikes."
  13.  
    kilgore_trout:god help anyone who uses zev in a focus group

    If they make that mistake, they deserve the outcome.Naaaah, too uncool for the #messlyfe. I just like to hang out in loading docks and pretend to talk on my radio so that people will like me. - Mfratt
    •  
      CommentAuthorZevsInSF
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2011 edited
     
    awww why. seriously though. focus groups are for various inputs. And yes i've got an alternate point of view than you do. wtf butt munchers??

    EPIC! Stratton: ^fwiw he did in fact have a map out.... ...while riding.... ...with no hands.... ..on fire*...
    •  
      CommentAuthorNuggetross
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2011
     
    butt munchersssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
  14.  
    hurray rimjobs!
  15.  
    i prefer syrupDFL and DTF :D:D:D:D
    •  
      CommentAuthorbrunop
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2011
     
    has anyone seen a fully built up firefly yet? if so, post up some links/pics!
    • CommentAuthortristan
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2011
     


    All I've got.ascott430 - "Was going to build it up into a fixed gear until I realized I'd rather spend money and time on mountain bikes."
    •  
      CommentAuthorbrunop
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2011
     
    ^hahaha!! that looks a lot like my IF. for real.
    •  
      CommentAuthorZevsInSF
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2011
     
    tristan, do you hang out at their shop. REALLY!
    hmm. looks like it's been painted. I wonder when they finished it.EPIC! Stratton: ^fwiw he did in fact have a map out.... ...while riding.... ...with no hands.... ..on fire*...
    • CommentAuthorben
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2011
     
    What about that looks painted? It's Ti.I have DTF pants. They're crotchless. -surprisefries
    • CommentAuthorBAUMANN
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2011
     
    yea, looks like unpainted Ti to me.RIDE METAL
  16.  

    First thing that always comes to mind when I see/hear the word firefly.

    That said, the bike looks pretty sweet too.clockwork ted: this is my favorite thread. sweet BJ alexi!